According to Judaism, are Unitarian Christians, JWs etc (reject the divinity of Jesus) considered Noachide?
Or does one have to convert to a formal religion called Noachide Judaism or something?
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Background: (Repeated for those who may not have read my prior question)
I am asking because I have discovered that most Jewish men according to DNA studies share a single middle eastern recent common ancestor. For example, almost 87% of Cohens belong to haplogroup J as do nearly 40% of Jews, who don’t even live in the Middle East.
In my case, my father and mother are from India. We look and classify as East Indians by race. However, according to our myth of origin, my paternal ancestors (deep ancestry) came from the Middle East, traveling thru Northern Iran/ (Persia), to settle in India, 800 years ago. I didn’t think it was possible. So, I decided to test this myth/ legend, and approached FamilytreeDNA.
http://www.familytreedna.com/landing/jewish-ancestry.aspx
According to the DNA study, less than 1 in 1000 Indians are paternally related to me. In other words, there aren’t too many Indians related to my father's family in India. We were definitely recent immigrants to India. The question was from where? The results suggest that my paternal origins are “significantly” shared with Ashkenazi Jews of Bessarabia/ Moldova. According to the results, I am 20 times more likely to find someone closely paternally, related to me, in Bessarabia/ Moldova than India. I belong to haplogroup subclade J2a1* one of more than 800 Y DNA haplogroup subclades in the human population:
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index09.html
It turns out that mine is also the most common haplogroup among Jews, Samaritans and the Bene Israel of India population. According to the DNA lab, my sons and my sons' sons so on and so forth will all carry this mutation, which is common among Jews, no matter what race of girl they marry. For me that was a big wow. Therefore, I am interested in knowing how Jews think about God.
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Going forward: Wow, I'm not sure if I understand your question.
We all come from Noah after the flood. Our DNA (genes) are of the HUMAN kind and each race was formed by segregating itself for generations thus producing a defined race, appearance and culture.
God put race distinction into our genes from the start of humanity ( Adam and Eve) all we had to do is isolate it to get the variations of people.
J2: I highly recommend visiting https://www.familytreedna.com/
I have a friend whose grandma was N. American from a reservation. All other grandparents were Caucasian. He looks white. He is married to a Caucasian. His daughters are blue eyed blonde Caucasians. Races are superficial. Science has enabled us to identify more than 800 different deep male ancestral lines. -good luck.
alonyoav: Genetics is irrelevant in determining whether someone is Jewish or not. Unless your maternal line is Jewish, you are not Jewish. Since you would trace any Jewish family lines through your paternal line, you would not be Jewish under Jewish law.
J: Which is why I am asking about the Noachide laws. Just wondering how far does the fruit fall from the tree (in a couple of thousand years)?
Cher: The only one in question tends to be the first about not doing idolatry.
J2a1*: Like Obama, my grandfather was an Orthodox Muslim. He retired as a Judge from the British Indian court system. He had a degree in Law. Members of my family also held senior positions as governors and judges under the Moguls of India. The family legend claims we came out of Arabia (not Bessarabia) and settled in Northern Iran in the 7th century. Then, moved to India about 800 years ago after the Muslim conquest of India. However, Arabia is J1 not J2. Arabia is not on my RAO page. I match as many Arabs as I match Indians.
Unlike grandpa, my parents & I accept the Torah, Gospel and Quran as scripture. I attended Protestant Elementary School in England. A strict unitarian, I am a member of the Unitarian Universalist congregation. I regard Jesus as a prophet. I believe Muhammad brought one more scripture, without asking anyone to abandon the Gospel or Torah. So am I a Noachide?
allonyaov: Genetics is irrelevant in determining whether someone is Jewish or not. Unless your maternal line is Jewish, you are not Jewish. Since you would trace any Jewish family lines through your paternal line, you would not be Jewish under Jewish law.
J2: I dont think that would change the biological nature of the relationship. For example, after people convert to Judaism, their non Jewish parents would remain biological parents. They may continue to love their child even if the child didnt want to acknowledge his relationship with his non Jewish parents.
However, since I am not Jewish, patrilineal tribal identity can be important to me. I am interested in knowing whether Bessarabian Jews, being the most closely related "population" to me on earth , would regard me (under their Jewish belief system) as someone who would have a reward in the after life (as a Noachide). Or have I fallen so far from the tree that my soul is lost?
Cher: (Edit: Obviously I missed the JV & Unitarian point of the question...)
J2: I missed your edit and started another question to get the answer to the question. lol. Hope you will answer it too. I will give you the best answer on this question. thanks.
September 8th, 2009 at 8:34 am
It sounds to me like you already are Jewish, if the genetics checks out, but to be a Jew you’d have to convert. It’s that simple. Those other groups aren’t Jewish.
September 10th, 2009 at 11:17 pm
Wow, I’m not sure if I understand your question.
We all come from Noah after the flood. Our DNA (genes) are of the HUMAN kind and each race was formed by segregating itself for generations thus producing a defined race, appearance and culture.
God put race distinction into our genes from the start of humanity ( Adam and Eve) all we had to do is isolate it to get the variations of people.
September 11th, 2009 at 1:14 am
Do a search on Noahide. There are some online groups.
Some Noahide’s attend Jewish synagoges.
My cousin is one, doesn’t make a big deal of it, but attends a Kabbalah center, in New York( Yep, the same one as Madonna).
I have read about 5 books on Kabbalah, often wear my red string, and have the greatest respect for Noahide’s and Kabbalist’s.
Ya know, your DNA thing does not surprise me, I remember being told when I was young, by my father, that some Indian’s are” the lost tribes’ of Isreal or something like that.
COOL yo!
September 12th, 2009 at 12:32 pm
Noahide are 7 laws identified from the convenant with Noah. You can follow those laws autmoatically as part of yoru life already. Or you can follow them by conscious choice. For that there are some groups, is one.
The laws read like a subset of the 10 commandments & most people follow them being modern. Don’t murder, don’t eat live flesh off an animal’s leg, etc..
The only one in question tends to be the first about not doing idolatry. While it’s idolatry for a Jew to worship Jesus because he’s an intermediaty to God, it is determined by Jewish arguments that it is NOT idolatry for a Chrsitan to because they are worshiping God himself as well. As an Indian, I have no idea your relationship to God. However, for Hindism with the Brahma concept so similar to the Jewish God concept & the subGod concepts part of that one energy, it probably fits too. Hindism being so diverse makes this a very big generalization. (Edit: Obviously I missed the JV & Unitarian point of the question…)
Something to keep in mind is that while it’s said that being a Noahide ensures a peace in the world to come…it does not mean that not being a Noahide prevents one. We assume it’s based on action & who you are. The world to come is the messanic age of wonderfulness, not afterlife. (Though sometimes it does refer to that.) Never mind though – afterlife isn’t a focus in Judaism so the ideas aren’t as concrete as they are in other religions.
Something else ot keep in mind is that the text they are based on is pretty vague. There’s judgement used to determine them. I’ve seen variation in how they are derived. So, if you find something you don’t like, it may be expressed a little differently elsewhere.
I’ve starred. There are others with a good list of them ready to post.
September 13th, 2009 at 5:30 pm
As long as somebodu adheres to the 7 laws of Bnei Noiach, they would be considered a Ger Toshav (resident non-Jew) in the days of the Temple and thus a Noachide. How the modern Naochide groups that have sprung up define membership, you would need to ask them. Find a local group and ask, they may have their own requirements and these may even vary between different groups of Nachides.
Note: Genetics is irrelevant in determining whether someone is Jewish or not. Unless your maternal line is Jewish, you are not Jewish. Since you would trace any Jewish family lines through your paternal line, you would not be Jewish under Jewish law.
Note2: Turkish_Tea- the Kabbalah centre is a cult, and a dangerous one at that! Red bracelets and charms are meaningless in real Kabbalah and serve just to make money for the Berg’s. Phillip Berg does not have smichah (Rabbinical ordination), he was never a seniour student of R’ Ashlag, even his PHD is from a mail order site! get out while you can.
September 16th, 2009 at 8:22 am
I was raised a JW. Yes, they would meet the definition of Noachides.
The only possible problem would be the “meat torn from a living animal.” Not that they go out and seek such meats, of course, but since they usually rely on government certification to ensure that they are eating things within their guidelines, things may slip through now and again.
I don’t know much about the Unitarians, but they probably meet the definition as well.
I take the minority view that Christians who believe that Jesus is God are not Noachides.